Shame on the Feds and the Province: Signing the RCMP Contract Means Both Sides at the Table and No Hidden Costs
Shame on the horse’s ass federal Deputy Minister that decided to send such an idiotic letter to this province demanding a signature or else with respect to the RCMP contract for BC.
Who gave that moron advice, Don Corleone? Remember? “It’s either your signature or your brains on the contract… you decide…” he should be fired immediately.
Firstly, for four years the feds have been dragging their feet. It’s mindlessness to suggest only the province is to blame. In good part, the province has been taking advice on a provincial police force from dimwits like Kash Heed while he’s spit-shining his mentor Rob Gordon’s shoes. You see, all of Mr. Heed’s foolish ideas about legalization and decriminalizing dope and a provincial police force come from SFU’s Prof. Gordon, who has a long-standing hatred for the cops–how else does one explain his viral drivel on those matters?
Secondly, if the feds don’t want their position on ‘Law and Order’ rightfully mocked then the PM can jolly well get his Minister’s ass in gear and help the signature process along. Instead, he’ll make Premier Clark look like a genius (some task, you’ll agree) and Solicitor-General Shirley Bond like MENSA candidate (yet another equally daunting task).
Lastly, for all the people wailing to fire the RCMP–who generally speaking do a very good job…well, who will you hire as provincial cops?
I’ll tell you: The RCMP officers who didn’t retire that you just let go or fired. You’re hiring on the same people who just walked out and in the process created a MASSIVE bill for this province.
But what do you expect from a completely closed process? The province has been completely secretive about the whole thing from the very beginning and it’s been the same under Gordon Clark as it has been under Christy Campbell.
What a gong show. They should let me negotiate the whole thing. It’d be done in a week.
Alex, could this be, in part, some kind of payback for Christy Clark making announcements recently that involved Federal contribution but without the Feds being ready to commit to their contribution?
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Nah, I doubt it very much. This is from the other side of govt. If it were on a matter where only Christy loses, yeah, absolutely. But in this case, if the RCMP is gone from BC, then both sides lose.
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without a doubt a provincial police force would drive up policing costs having to buy cars … other equipment ( helicopters planes communication equipment etc ) … rent office space … training of K9 squads … and the PMO knows all these things and thus are playing hardball with the province … a letter like that would have to come with the PM’s endorsement
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Not so fast. Until your last line, you’re right. But Ottawa doesn’t work that way contrary to popular belief.
The PMO would have had nothing to do with it. It would have all been contained in the Minister’s bailiwick. As stupid a negotiating tactic as I’ve ever seen.
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After years of negotiations it comes down to this ? For some strange reason, I believe this may just be a political show. Grab some headlines and when all is said & done Christy can call a news conference and talk about what a great job Shirley did during some very delicate negotiations. Otherwise these idiots should be turfed for wasting the public’s tax dollars. With respect to RCMP vs Provincial Police, I don’t believe you will ever satisfy everyone. Finally after reading about the new BC Liberal logo… well curiosity got the best of me. All I can say is what an egotistical idiot she can truly be. (it’s not longer a Party for all who want in…. it now belongs to Christy )
Guy in Victoria
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Some excellent points.
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“Close the door on the way out. I for one will feel safer with them gone.”
“Yeah, drop the RCMP, and go your own way. They’ve embarassed us enough, across the country.”
Jeezus,some of the commenters at the Globe and Mail aren’t very pro-RCMP,and the two I re-posted are among the milder comments.
The Feds need some lessons in negotiations,this ” take-it-or-leave-it,hurry up” BS has no place in Federal-Provincial business negotiations. Who’s the bloody amateur behind the federal stance?
The Dziekanski case has certainly cost the RCMP big time,and they’ve not properly resolved it by any means.
To think we looked on the RCMP as our heroes when we were kids….:-(
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You’ve nailed it BCers want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
The RCMP should have their contract signed and delivered after the hidden costs matter is resolved. I’m told by others at the table from the provincial side that it’s the only sticking point.
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Are those hidden costs HST exempt? Sorry I couldn’t resist..
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Good one!
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The things or Federal Govt has been doing are more and more of a concern
the issue has to start at the top Harper is the one who guides the ship what is he doing?
I have stated before my lack of trust due to things i saw back to his Reform days and with a majority i dont like more of what is happening now .
Campbell/Clark are drones they would negotiate selling off anything for their friends to profit secret deals are better for such so id expect nothing else of them ,
I have known many former RCMP as well as working with them regularly now and agree Alex they are mostly a good dedicated group who strive to serve and protect and help the public and do it well deserve more credit then they get on day to day basis they do a very good job under much stress and high demands , the other end is when BC rail went as it did i have questions id like answers about a few high placed people only had involvement but it needs to be aired one day.
I asked a friend in RCMP what would happen if BC went to a Provincial force and he says it would likely be run much as an OPP are now and be effective initially start up costs would be high but he expected it would be on par with what we have now after a short time.
I would prefer we stay RCMP myself but why not public process to agree to a new contract i think if we pay for it we should have the proper billing info.
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Some superb points.
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Sorry to post off topic, but this is too much to ignore.
http://www.bcliberals.com/
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I saw this earlier today. I will be doing a post on her and the BC Libs this week. Amazing that BC Liberal caucus would be happy with a website that is essentially all about her.
Idiots.
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Hah! I went there for a quick snoop. On the Facebook link (where it says click here to “Like Christy” (UGH!), I had a look at a couple of those souls who claim to ‘like’ her. Here is one right off the top of the page, I didn’t go any further than this dudes FB profile. Sure glad he doesn’t like me. Take a close look at his other ‘friends’! Hubba hubba! HAHAHA!
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002250216993&sk=photos
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Hey, don’t put it past Christy to find a way to get an American to vote for her.
She’s a federal Liberal: We only cheat when we can’t win.
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several points
the thought of a provincial police would be more effective is a delusion .
accountability is what the public wants. regretfully the political will is not
with the public.
i believe regional policing may be cost effective in some cases
the bottom line is lets use some common sense.
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Sorry…RCMP must go…..see no value in retention , other than small rural towns
BC used to have its own Provincial Police Force.( Google it)
Here in Richmond, we have been designated as a training center for RCMP…so the new recruits” can experience a multi – cultural environment.”
It ends up a revolving door, and rather interesting talking to officers at least half ones age and rather wet behind the ears. aka pay top $$ for rookies?
The RCMP is accountable to head office in Eastern Canada, not the Local Gov’t they contract their serves to….
Local Gov’t contracts with the RCMP leave them beholden to Ottawa’s whims re costs. Often the only out for Local Gov’ts for cost savings is to not fill vacant positions.
Much rather have officers that have roots in the community versus revolving door of Eastern -based Hessians.
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Where would you get the members to replace the 3,000 positions that your hastiness would vacate?
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The bulk of the applicants would be former RCMP working in BC now who want to stay which likely would be most of them, a BC force isnt a terrible idea but look at full details and costs as well as resources they share that would need to be developed here there are many pro and con arguments but i do agree more accountable would be nice but would you have that any easier as politics would be easier to influence a BC force than an Ottawa based one in some ways.
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I’m with sb, if the RCMP is replaced they will be laying off thousands of (experienced and trained) officers and will also have a surfeit of surplus equipment that they have hopefully maintained well that the new provincial force can then negotiate to buy (make an offer – give the Ottawa RCMP HQ 48 hours to accept or issue an order to get their junk out of the province…..just sayin’ for chuckles). I would imagine most newly unemployed mounties would prefer to stay in the “best place on earth” to a transfer to Flin Flon.
The horsemen would still be in province to fulfill their federal mandate, like local FBI offices in the empire to the south. Maybe with only a federal jurisdiction the \mounties could hold the new BCPP, VPD, Nelson PD etc. more accountable than the current non-existent system of buddy forces or detachments investigating each other with plenty of nudges and winks.
If a new BCPP is taking applications I would like to recommend not accepting either Monty Robinson or the head kicker from Kelowna, don’t even give ‘em EI or welfare.
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Who is fooling who? This is all posturing. Neither the The Province nor the local governments ever had, nor now have the political will to make the shift to a Provincial Force, or Metro Force or any combination thereof. Now they have painted themselves into a corner with no rational exit options. The Justice Institute of BC could not closely screen and then train new police officers fast enough to fill the void. Given the propensity of organized crime to want to infiltrate the police forces, the screening alone would take a year or two.
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EXCEPTIONAL POINTS.
At the very least, it’s too late. They have to cut a deal.
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Who is this “Premier Clark ” of that you speak? I don’t recall any provincial election that had a leader of that name. Hmmm…Maybe I’m taking too many naps.
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It was just a bad dream…
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For those who would “dump the RCMP”, here is the “reality”:
-Startup costs of a provincial police force would be enormous, ALL tax dollars ALL born by BC taxpayers.
-A huge majority of BCPP members would be drawn from current RCMP(as you pointed out, Alex)
-The BCPP would be run by the very same politicians that we now disparage for being discredited and corrupt
-ANYONE who thinks that a BCPP would be “equitable in cost” is dreaming. Ongoing contingency studies show 35-45% HIGHER than RCMP costs.(Think about it, RCMP arrive with full kit and basically trained, something we taxpayers would pay in FULL.)
-ANYONE who thinks provincial police forces are “it”, try and remember details like:
OPP- Caledonia
QPP- Oka, Mohawk dope smuggling, gun smuggling, endless complaints filed, Hells Angels ignored or raided but turned loose on lack of evidence, ongoing political pressure
-New Brunswick had it’s own Highway Patrol/Highway Traffic Police but went RCMP to save money in September of 1985.
j
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Very well put.
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I’m sure we can all agree that Jim Chu is the man to run the provincial police force.
Nothing better than some syrup with a lot of waffle.
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LMAO!
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I don’t know.
It sounds like the Province wants the good deal the RCMP provides, and and all of the control that they would have over a provincial force. Almost like they want their cake and eat it too. And municipalities want to tell the RCMP how to deploy?!?! If you want that kind of control, start up your own municipal force.
As much as the RCMP have their problems, the thought of a Provincial force controlled by Victoria, or a municipal force controlled by these clowns that run our municipalities scares the cr@p out of me!
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I lean in your direction. I see some merits in a BCPP in that it would change the corrupt culture that currently exists, but generally, I’m with you.
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I have to admit, I like the idea of a provincial force, but I think the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. As well, I think there are some agendas at play in Victoria and our Silly Halls.
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John Cummins has asked Brian Peckford to study the pros and cons of a provincial force. He set up Newfoundland’s force back in the early “80s. He has 3 months to do it.
As for the conversion, we’d have the chance to clean house and the tin and wood could be taken over from Crown Assets Disposal for a song. No big deal. The fed force would remain with regard to federal issues, so they won’t be all gone.
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There are merits to this too.
I think the initiative by Cummins is wrong. Peckford is yesterday’s man and the case of Newfoundland with BC is a comparison of apples and cactii.
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During the last contract talks the same squabbles were over funding. It was posturing on both sides and late on in the negotiations it was solved. This time around the Province has gained the agreement for the RCMP to be subject of the provincial watchdog/complaints people and rightfully would like no surprises in large monetary outlays. They will settle it up because the alternative is wholly unacceptable.
There is insufficient infrastructure to support a provincial force.
Surrey commissioned a study a while back which told them they would need an increase of 300 officers to meet the same standards as the VPD and their negotiated contract. The municipal case load is less than RCMP officers and the RCMP does not have a union enforcing minimum manpower standards.
The RCMP and other forces cannot totally fill all the vacant positions today, so how could you massively fill thousands of positions needed to create a provincial force and support staff in a few years time?
Federally owned property and equipment certainly would not be just given over free of charge to the province.
There is no force in BC which is free of some bad behavior. Efforts should be made to deal effectively with those persons obviously not suited to the profession. I surmise its a derivative of everybody gets a ribbon on “outdoors day”, and its everyone’s God given right to do any job they want regardless of requirements. But that is just MHO.
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http://thetyee.ca/Blogs/TheHook/BC-Politics/2011/09/30/CheaperPolice/
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It’s not the first or last stupid thing Christy’s said.
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I find it kind of ironic that when the Province gets offered a take it or leave it deal they get all hot under the collar and say it’s unfair.
Kind of how they treat all the unions in this province (teachers, paramedics, HEU). Not that the unions are perfect in any way lots of problems there but they could at least try to negotiate some of the issues instead of strong arming everyone.
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That’s a very astute observation.
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