Little Flower Academy: The Bloom is Off the Rose
Right off the top, two of three of my sisters attended and graduated from Little Flower Academy.
My family’s experience was nothing but wonderful with respect to LFA. We were not a Catholic family, but Christian, and they were most accepting of both girls, who did well. My parents were generous and we encouraged many families to send their daughters there, which they did. I still think they are a very good school.
But this brouhaha that has erupted over their clearly poor treatment of a lesbian teacher saddens me more than I can tell you. Once again, the Catholic Church and its indoctrination game has sullied an otherwise great institution with the kind of hypocritical, extremist dogma that cannot but leave one sickened.
In this particular case, instead of a student (body) physically violated as has happened in so many Catholic schools and churches the world over, LFA are molesting young girls’ minds with entirely offside horse feathers.
The public relations nightmare that has ensued is a direct result of LFA not standing up to “offended” parents and telling them to flock off when they complained about the fact that this music teacher was a lesbian mother. A teacher’s sexual orientation has NOTHING to do with what they are teaching or the way they are teaching it. IF, and I repeat, IF, this particular teacher in question was in class talking about how great it is to be lesbian and walked in to said class with a shirt emboldened with “Dyke Power!” or told the girls of how proud she was of coming third in last year’s Gay Parade ‘Ms. Butch Legs Contest’, then fire her and don’t let the door hit her ass on the way out. But, for me, that would apply if she walked into a class and made similar statements about how great it is to be heterosexual and how, as a result of non-stop humping her boyfriend over the weekend, she put her back out.
But that’s clearly not the case here. Something beautiful–becoming a mother, has been turned into something ugly.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a lesbian woman teaching at a school private or public. That she is a new mother should be something to cherish and celebrate and not a point of condemnation. Is she not human? Was she not created by the same God that created the rest of us?
And, of course, not missing an opportunity to take yet another gratuitous, inaccurate, kick at private schools, Vancouver Elementary Schools Teacher Vice-President Glen Hansman, proves out the theory that teachers’ unions are run by doctrinaire, far-left loons. His suggestion was that private schools should not get part funding (in fact it’s very small, per student) because they discriminate. Well, let me tell you Mr. Hansman, at St. George’s, my old alma mater, there are a number of gay members of staff, some of whom have even adopted children, and we celebrate that, very much, as we should. But no one runs around making it a banner announcement and not because they can’t, but because they may have exercised their personal freedom not to. This is not any different, not any different at all, than a woman who would take a maternity leave and not make a particularly big deal about it (notwithstanding the obvious belly protrusion). It’s all quite wonderful. I, and many other parents, have spoken to our sons about gays and lesbians and they heartily agree–as they should; it’s something that is as part of life as being straight. And none of us fear, as some LFA parents clearly did, that if we talk about it our sons (or daughters) will be gay. You don’t learn to become gay. It’s not some club you join in a zombie-like state. You’re either born that way or you’re not–and should be proud either way. Although, painting with a broad brush, a teachers’ fed goon couldn’t resist the (non-existent) cause for alarm.
Pathetic…
This whole affair over at LFA is absurd. I don’t care what kind of Catholic contract this teacher in question signed when she was hired (and maybe she should have known better then to apply to teach in such a rigid, religious milieu–in contrast: Crofton House, St. George’s and York House are, thankfully, quite open and accepting environments). More to the point, Catholic priests that molested young boys (and some girls) over the years signed a much greater covenant with God. When they broke it, the Catholic Church covered their sorry derrieres, but now a lesbian teacher, who I understand is well-liked by students, is castigated as someone who needs to “stay home” or hide all for the offense of breaking some “Catholic code” and wanting to be a loving mother and because her child will grow up with two Moms?
Ridiculous. Completely ridiculous.
So, I ask you, the offended parents of LFA, whom would you rather see as a mother? A young lesbian woman, who has done nothing but better the lives of her students and by all accounts is a decent human being, or Pamela Anderson and Britney Spears (with two sons a piece), who by their own accounts, and videos, and endless, obscenely moronic pronouncements, could suck start leaf blowers…???
Who do you think would be a worse example and might be bad influence on your daughters?
I rest my case.
Dear Pope Alexander the pompous: When we, as Catholics seek your advice on these things, though they be freely given, we will ask you for them. I won’t tell you how to run the zoo that is the public school system, if you will just let me direct my share of the educational tax to the Catholic school system, If you don’t like the system (ours) then you may cash out and you can direct your attentions to the public school system that busies itself with teaching the boys and girls the delights of sodomy and sapphic love. I unfortunately don’t have that option, and until I do, I would thank you to tend to things you know best. By the way, Catholics who join the BCTF and other secular unions in education, are not given the option of not obeying its strictures and performing matters they consider unseemly.
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At least on that last point, regarding unions, we can agree. Bless you.
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Hear, Hear!
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Many thx Herb.
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I think the irony has been missed here, isn’t LFA run by Nuns, at one time it was nothing Nuns,who we know are women, females.
So the question begs to be asked,a lesbian is a female attracted to females,correct?
So am I to believe that Nuns are prohibited or ordered from being Lesbians.
Come on wake up, and smell the bloody coffee here, there is more here than meets the eye.
Give the woman her job back.
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Perhaps Henri Paul can translate what he said into French so bilinguals will know what he said, and I won’t even have to attempt to.
On the matter of whether or not the Catholic Church is, what is known as “homophobic”.
Catholicism has always been, always will be, the home to the misunderstood, the dispossessed, the deceived and the misbegotten – let’s look at just one point, which occurred in the bad old days of almost a 100 years ago. The trial, persecution, prosecution and execution of Sir Roger Casement.
It can be successfully argued that this man, who was knighted by King George V, for his work among the black men and women and the horrific slavery and brutality of , Leopold’s Congo, and of the Natives who worked the mines of Bolivia and Columbia in South America – was a traitor to Britain when he colluded with Germany (then at war with the Empire). Some may have seen him as an Irish patriot, but that too died with the execution of Pearse, Connolly and Clarke in Dublin after the Easter Rising in 1916. Casement, in collusion with Germany, had offered Irishmen freedom from the P.O.W. camps if they signed up for a Nationalist Irish Brigade. He was not very successful however, and he and 2 others were arrested off the coast of Tralee after disembarking from a German submarine.
Casement had been brought up Protestant, but when his father died his mother had him secretly baptized in the Catholic Faith (an apparently common practice in the fractious Ireland of the time). His mother died shortly thereafter and his uncle continued to bring him up in the Protestant Faith. At the time of Casement’s arrest, or shortly after, a search of his rooms claimed to find his personal diaries attesting to a hidden homosexual life, this at a time when it was illegal. Although this would have had nothing to do with charges of treason, (it was not allowed as evidence) certain sources in the British system allowed portions of it to be leaked to the public in order to forestall any support or sympathy for the man. The brilliant Joseph Conrad expressed disgust even though they had been friends in the Congo (even sharing accommodations!) and the poet Alfred Noyes was particularly nasty towards him. There was only one entity to call for clemency and that was the Roman Catholic Church. We should also mention that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle also asked that the execution be stopped. There was no support from the cold, puritanical Protestantism of the day that reigned in Britain.
Casement gave his first and only Confession on his final night on Earth and received both his first Holy Communion while simulaneously receiving the last or Viaticum, 1/2 hour before his death by hanging. Before his death he had requested that he be buried in Ireland, but this was, and is still, denied, and he is buried at Pentonville Prison in England. When Edith Cavell was shot for being a spy (There was no doubt that she gave succor to the enemy), the British called foul. Perhaps Edith died for the sins of the judges of the Court of King’s Bench?
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Seriously?
Yes… christians, catholics, whatever…
…yes your faith really does state it is a sin to be born gay or lesbian.
So why are good christians shocked when good catholics are bigoted with the excuse it is their faith? The catholics have openly chosen their point of view and self-justification angle, and are very comfortable with telling people they will burn in hell for thinking … well… almost anything that comes naturally into the human brain. So why the surprise?
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I didn’t state that I was shocked, but saddened. Treating someone so poorly because they are gay or lesbian is just completely out of bounds for me. Your religion should not have anything to do with it. That’s absurd. It’s quite appalling conduct.
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As a fellow Georgian I have to say you are a pompous clown here. One must understand this teacher had an agenda at work as does the BCTF. From what i am hearing she was pretty self centered and left the choir stranded in New Orleans to take a leave of absence. I think LFA did what they had to do, she was bringing her home life to school. Parents do not want their kids overly influenced as to what is a normal relationship and what is not at a young age ( it is not part of the friggin curriculum), they can figure it out later. I will also say that Crofton etc would not have been overly enthused finding out about this situation. Both Crofton, YHS and Saints do not place ads for gay teachers, quite the opposite, they may be accepting but once someone’s private life enters school gossip they would be gone too in a similar fashion.
Given the numerous lawsuits across Canada ( Upper Canada being a big one) of molestation, teachers having affairs, pedophiles etc schools are paranoid of who they hire, especially private where it is an all boys or girls school, they have to be ! Upper Canada had a gay teacher molesting borders as an example and influencing others.
The school may not have handled it appropriately but the teacher was neither upfront and apparently brought her personal life into the school. I mean she was there on a one year contract and she was looking for parental leave by Christmas, thus leaving the school without a choir teacher ! If gays want to teach at a secular school of one sex then don’t be a jackass, teach and so be it, leave the private life at home. Private one sex schools are also very reticent in hiring single teachers of the opposite sex even. Trying getting a job at Crofton as a single man let alone as a lesbian.
LFA overacted indeed, that said parents pay not to have their kids exposed to same sex marriages etc at a young age or vitro fertilization, what next strip shows like in Winnipeg. I did not want to hear about it when i was in grade 8 or 12. School life is for education. In my opinion LFA was generous, look at what she has now attempted to do to the school, does she really care that she has completely disrupted school life this week. She and the teaching gay organization have an agenda here, that being to take on a private school. She knew what she was getting into when she signed on come on. If a female teacher at Saints came out of the closet wanting time off in this nature she would not be rehired. Saints is not the most liberal place either and also has lots of Catholics, the chairman Cruikshank is very Catholic. If this became an issue at STG the same would apply if parents complained.
It is rather unfortunate, she should not have ramped up the whole issue and just taught. The school knew she was gay and was cool about it, even offering her sick leave on a contract. The school handled it badly, however they should not have been placed in such a situation to begin with. If I hired someone on a contract and they wanted to take parental leave i would say take time off but we are not paying you. She was substituting for someone on maternity leave and look what they got.
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You call yourself a “Georgian”? Pal, you should go have that yellow streak wiped from your back. You come onto this blog, one of the most popular political blogs in the province, read from sea to sea, and you shovel the kind of close-minded, bigoted manure about what you perceive as being “the story.”
Firstly, you cowardly show up without using your name, and tell us that you “hear” matters about this issue. But from whom? You talk about ads for gay teachers, you manufacture positions that CHS, Saints or York would take, when the evidence is quite to the contrary, and then throw around names of people and their religions like you actually know something. Maybe some of those Catholics you name would be better off to display some of their compassion, than the disgraceful vindictiveness against people whom disagree with them.
Where did this gal at LFA bring her sexuality or orientation into the classroom? An you provide some evidence? Of course not, but you hide behind a manufactured name and a fake email and lob smears. Did I mention you’re a coward and unworthy of being an Old Boy?
Secondly, what kind of a demented mind do you possess? What does molestation and influence have to do with anything about this story? You’re sick. Get help. A teacher’s sex life has nothing to do with her ability to teach. At Saints, I learned about the glories and wonders of the English language from a gay man. I knew he was gay and it never occurred to me to be gay, because my brain isn’t wired that way. I am delightfully hetero, and have often celebrated with that same teacher, who is now a great friend, when I married my best friend, and when Maryanna and I had three kids–and Dougal, to his credit, has NEVER, not once ever made salacious suggestions as you suggest some teachers who are gay make. Similarly, I took an art history class in my final year at Saints from a man who was clearly gay (he has since retired) and he was one of the best teachers I’ve ever had. In university I studied French literature at UBC under Floyd St; Clair and attended a few dinner parties at his home in Kits–a home he shared with his partner of many years. Never a odd ball comment, not even a hint. Are there teachers who say things they shouldn’t, sure, but they’re also straight not just gay.
Thirdly, your contentions about her contract are irrelevant, if not odious. She was put in a box after some parents approached the school with complaints, not of professional misconduct, but of the fact that she was going on leave due to the birth of her child–that’s a problem the school should have dealt with MUCH differently.
Finally, please don’t come back here. You aren’t welcome. This blog represents varied pinions, but NONE of them are racist, bigoted, imbalanced, unfair or offside.
What you wrote here was a convoluted mish-mash of what you might have had someone feed you and your misperceptions of this situation, including what being gay and lesbian in this world is about: Mostly, it’s, quite tragically, about having to watch your back at every step of the way in life, because of people like you.
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Gordon, because I am a polite and decent individual, I will not call you the complete idiot you quite clearly are. Now, confining my remarks strictly to the arguments that you made, and avoiding at all costs making personal attacks on the incredible degree of stupidity that must have motivated them, I will proceed.
To begin with, I too am a Georgian. To assume that the teacher had an agenda might be acceptable, were you to have provided a scintilla of evidence to substantiate your claim. You failed to do so, quite likely because you have none.
Not to attack your pathetic use of grammar, but you cannot say “both Crofton, YHS and Saints.” The word “both” refers strictly to two things, and can’t be used for longer lists. I find it somewhat surprising that a Georgian would lack a grasp of something so basic, but I’ll continue.
Moving on, your discussion of molestation has absolutely no place in this discussion. Pedophilia, in all of its forms, is child abuse and is completely unrelated to sexuality.
Continuing on, the notion that schools don’t place ads for gay teachers would be laughable if it wasn’t so ignorant. I have yet to see an ad placed seeking out heterosexual teachers either. Every school I know of places ads for well-qualified teachers. This is the appropriate standard.
Moving along, it is quite a stretch to equate the miracle of parenthood, whether through natural conception, or in vitro fertilization, with strip clubs in Winnipeg. Where you are correct is in saying that school like is about education. An integral part of education is preparing students for the outside world. This is why we teach not only math, but also career planning. It’s also why we don’t just teach science, but also sex education. These are important and integral parts of the curriculum.
Furthermore, considering that as a matter of constitutional law, all marriages are recognized, be they opposite-sex or same-sex, the question of normalcy simply doesn’t hold water. Homosexuality exists throughout a vast array of settings in the natural world. It is only humankind that has sought to stigmatize it, and find a way to turn love into shame. If anything, this is the sort of conduct that is abnormal.
The teacher in question left her personal life at home. She did so until her wife was about to give birth. As a matter of basic humanity, in a society where we claim to treat people equally and in a humane manner, no person should be forced to treat the birth of their daughter as a cause for shame. Further, the teacher in question did not proselytize to her students. She sought from school administrators the maternal leave she was entitled to under the law.
Let me note that in response to the assertion that a teacher would be fired once the gossip mill got moving by noting that the facts simply do not support this. Over the years that I was at Saints, and in the years since, there have been, and continue to be a number of teachers who are either openly gay, or about whom there is no doubt. The school has not discouraged this at all.
Furthermore, all independent schools in British Columbia receive public funding at 50% of the per-pupil level provided to public schools. There can be no doubt that every school that receives public funding must live up to its legal obligations, including non-discrimination based on sexual orientation.
I think that this takes care of most of the pathetically poorly thought-out arguments made in the original post. Time to get off your high horse and join the 21st Century.
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Denny Crane…bullseye, over and out…
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Hey grammar king, furthermore is overused in the above ! I am assuming this is Alex posting as Sam so I will respond accordingly ( who else would be so wordy and thesaurus like). Firstly I graduated from STG years ago and no homosexuals were not cruising the corridors nor many teaching that I could determine, not that I cared anyway. What I did notice however was strange men sitting in cars watching our rugby practices, this I now get whereas before I was somewhat innocent as to their time in those cars. This could parallel what a student at LFA needs to or does not need to know about lesbians or vitro fertilization, the cat got out of the bag so to speak and it became an issue.
Lisa Reimer is a big girl, she actually took a leave of absence from the Vancouver School District to teach at LFA on a ten month contract. Given the nature of the school she might have told them she was planning on having a baby during the school term and they could have made a decision prior to contract signing. This is a case of many soft issues, I think LFA did the best they could and should not have been pressured by a few parents ( I am guessing a few). That said Ms Reimer could have been more forthright prior to taking the job, if I was hiring someone for ten months and they were planning leave during that period it may be a consideration.
Rather than acting your usual imperial pompous self, you should fully examine the facts. The school should have let her finish till June. She should have be more upfront and understood what she was walking into ! Example, what if she/they had decided to abort the baby two months in and she was teaching there, would that have been cool, another teachable moment for the kids ? Many issues come forth, my main issue is that they hired a choir teacher for ten months. I believe there is alot more to this story, if not she and the Gay Teachers Association would be hitting them with a discrimination suit.
As for those that put Saints on a pedestal, lots of kids were called gay when I was there and believe me alot of kids were picked on and bullied. I also highly doubt that Crofton etc would load up on lesbian teachers, nor would STG or VC load up on gay teachers, they hire very selectively. I also know a female counselor at STG who ironically graduated from LFA, she said that they fully scrutinized her as she was single at the time of hiring ( she had worked in the public system prior), fyi she had to sign a morality clause. Exceptions are made for sure but parents want their kids raised in a heterosexual environment, they have the right to pay for that. It is not for you or I to make the schools or parents decision, once however that teacher is hired they must fit in so to speak.
I think all parties here got a learning experience, as Obama would say ” a teachable moment ” ! I think LFA overacted no question, however I am not fully cognizant of all the facts, she was paid in full so that is hardly a dismissal. Everyone wishes her the best, this after seriously disrupting the girls school life and taking a serious run at the school fortified by the Gay Teachers Association and the BCTF ( which LFA is not part of ).
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Firstly, I’m going to allow this post to go through, even though you continue to cowardly hide behind a false name when making such specific, ridiculous pronouncements.
Secondly, your bizarre observations about, in order: my writing under another name (I HAVE NEVER DONE THIS, NOR WOULD I); the “men sitting in cars” absurdity (ever heard of parents watching their sons play rugby, you dolt?); or what kind of convoluted, mangled thinking goes behind in vitro discussions and knowledge of lesbianism at LFA (WTF does that have to do with anything?)
Thirdly, the RELEVANT points here are that she was discriminated against and that LFA dealt with it in the worst possible manner. That you were schooled by someone other than me isn’t that big a deal considering the evidence of your limited-in-size pea, but that you would even think to return and confirm what aclod you are is really something.
Finally, all the associated crap you have tried to tack to this issue just shows that you really have no point and that there is no substantive thinking that went behind yet another run of the pea, stream of consciousness bafflegab tat you’ve offered us.
I’m amazed you made it through typing all this pish without knocking over your drool cup.
And quoting Obama here? Jesus wept, writing is a problem, but reading too? Since when has the Oracle of Oratory had anything intelligent to say?
There was no run against anybody at LFA and Lisa Reimer did not disrupt anyone’s lives. Other than yours, apparently…
Gays and lesbians should be able to share their joys no differently than heterosexual teachers.
Go away, bigoted man.
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EDITED DUE TO ANIT-GAY COMMENTS (AGT)
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It says something that you have so little faith in your own backwards arguments that you move towards bizarre speculation and conspiracy theories. Frankly, frontloading that with a stylistic critique of the use of one word further demonstrates your lack of confidence in what you had to say. That you graduated from Saints years ago does say something. It speaks not to a culture at private schools, but the fact that you likely graduated (my guess here, since you won’t tell us) in the 1970′s or 80′s. Let me note that given that, the justification for your observations is incorrect. In those days, society at large was incredibly homophobic. That homophobia led people in most walks of life to be silent about their sexuality.
This is simply not the case anymore, so relying on decades-outdated prevailing attitudes towards homosexuality to justify actions today simply does not fly. Next, you say you don’t care whether or not there were “homosexuals” around the school, but in your postings to date, you have taken every opportunity to equate homosexuality with pedophilia and immorality, to name a few. For your statement about not caring to be accurate, you’d either have to be lying, or no care about pedophilia and immorality, since you have demonstrated that they are linked in your mind. You further reinforced this when you chose, yet again, in your comment about strangers in cars, to equate homosexuality with pedophilia yet again. That you chose, once again, to equate the joy of parenthood with creepy pedophiles remains disturbing, and suggests a sense of either latent or overt homophobia.
Next, your suggestion that Ms. Reimer ought to have sought school permission for her partner to conceive a child is ludicrous. No heterosexual couple would ever be required to do so, nor should have Ms. Reimer. The rules in this country are clear: when a person’s spouse becomes pregnant, that person is entitled to parental leave as well, with their job protected until their return, within the bounds of the timeframe permitted by law.
Dragging abortion into this one is a total red herring. Again, Ms. Reimer didn’t seek to drag the issue into the classroom, and how or why someone would abort an in vitro conceived fetus, after the incredible effort it takes for the procedure to be successful is something out of far right field. It should also be pointed out that LFA approved Ms. Reimer’s leave. She believed that her employer had acted in good faith. When she returned to work at the end of her leave, that’s when she was told never to set foot on school property again. If LFA had a legitimate issue with Ms. Reimer’s situation, they’d have ended her contract when she requested her leave.
Your next comment on hiring practices remains rooted in your decades-old observations. I’m a far more recent graduate of Saints. I remain in contact with a number of teachers at the school, and have two younger brothers. Your own opinions about hiring practices are just that: opinions. Those opinions are not borne out by the very plain facts of the actual hiring practices of those schools. As for the morality clause you cite, that has nothing to do with sexuality. It requires a certain standard of conduct, and to refrain from use of illicit drugs, and not to engage in various proscribed behaviours that would cast a shadow over the reputation of the school. Yet again, I feel the need to point out that this has nothing to do with “loading up” on gay teachers. Saints, YHS, and Crofton don’t look for gay teachers anymore than straight teachers. Each of these schools seeks out excellent teachers.
Next, your characterization that parents want their kids raised in a heterosexual environment is ridiculous. You seem to imply that having openly gay teachers turns the class room into some sort of gay circuit party. Perhaps this is just your own naivete at play, but yet again, it belies reality. My family is incredibly conservative, but they have a great deal of respect for one of my brother’s teachers. That teacher is openly gay. Parents don’t want a heterosexual or homosexual environment. They want a learning environment that prepares their children for the world. As a taxpayer, it is for me to make that decision for the school. LFA receives over $2 million in public funding each year. Those who receive public funding are bound by public policy, one of which is equality.
This is not a teachable moment. Ms. Reimer did nothing wrong, and LFA has learned nothing. You, Gordon, speak out of both sides of your mouth, pretending to be reasonable, while equating homosexuality with every societal ill you can along the way. The only disruption to the lives of the girls was that of LFA, which chose to cancel Ms. Reimer’s classes, depriving all those students of a gifted teacher (after all, they wouldn’t have hired her if she wasn’t), all because a few close-minded individuals took issue with things that had nothing to do with the classroom. Ms. Reimer didn’t drag sexuality into the classroom. A group of activist parents and a spineless school administration did that, along with apologists like you.
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Alex I assume,
Get real, they hired a choir teacher not a drama teacher to replace someone on maternity. I doubt they wished to get invitro fertilization 101 or someone else on parental leave, the whole point was to get stability and curriculum. It is not a friggin orphanage rather a school. Fyi said teacher was at Crofton the previous year after taking two years leave from the VSB, they did not extend her contract rather LFA picked up the final year due to a connection she had with the teacher taking leave. She had a duty to inform them that she may need time off given the fertilization and baby coming, that would have given LFA notice on whether to extend the offer due to time off required. Should they have decided to abort said baby during the initial stage that could have been cool too in your opinion i am sure ! It is only a Catholic school whereby both issues are not cool despite what time period we live in.
What LFA got was a sideline issue they had to deal with ( leave ), a complete disrespect for how they view birthing in their faith and a complete non disclosure at contract signing.
If I am a football coach and i extend an offer for a one year contract to a quarterback and he fully knows he needs time for surgery and recovery 3 weeks then that is disruptive to my organization. People have the right to know who they hire and that they can rely on them for the duration of said contract.
Btw Saints have teachers sign morality clauses in their contracts, as well they receive government assistance. Frankly i could not care if you knew every gay on the planet or are a bartender at Numbers while going to school, who cares. Employers should not get surprises from fill in contractual employees, accidents etc fine but this could have been easily managed at inception, yes do we hire her or no it will be disruptive.
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That you continue to be a coward and lob little bomblets from behind your blanket is unsurprising. Nor is it much of a shock that your original position continues to devolve into a confused pablum.
Lisa Reimer had every right to demand a parental leave. And she had every right to be treated with dignity. She did not treat her students like they needed to know about invitro….that’s a lie, she simply informed them of her happy news.
That she worked at Crofton House is irrelevant. My oldest daughter is student at CHS. They are the best school in the province for many reasons, that include acceptance, understanding and compassion. And your contention that they “did not extend her contract” is a fraudulent postulate: She was only given a one year==period.
Your analogy about football only serves to reinforce you still don’t want to understand the issue, or, are entirely incapable. I suspect the latter. LFA badly mishandled this to the extent that they impinged upon her rights to parental leave and they made statements that clearly show she was discriminated against. If she were straight would nay of this have happened? The ‘Catholic’ clause is ridiculous. Are gays and lesbians not born of the same God that created the rest of us? Absurdities abound with your demand that the backhanded manner with which you have commented on this issue is somehow going to convince anyone that you are anything other than a closeted bigot who dances around the fact that some ‘dyke’ lied about who she is, when it was clear everyone knew that going into it. On the strict issue of leave, she was entitled it. Leave was not sideline, it’s the law (that you claim you studied LOL)
As for Saints, teachers do NOT sign morality clauses, at least their contracts do not mention the word. There are paragraphs related to appropriate conduct, but there is no morality issue except in the dark recesses of your pea.
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Gordon, I’m at a Saints Old Boy’s dinner sitting across from a teacher and another Saints administrator. To begin, both of them have confirmed in no uncertain terms that there is no morality clause in either of their contracts. If there were, more than one top administrator would have been forced to resign.
Next, you virulent windbag, I am not Alex. Apparently your head is so clogged with conspiracy theories, stupidity, and dishonesty that you think that it’s impossible for multiple people to disagree with you. While the voices in your head might have different names, I assure you that I am completely distinct from Alex; in fact, I have never met the man.
Your jokes, such as the ridiculous drama teacher comment, are both ignorant and pathetic. Yet again, your own internalized homophobia has penetrated the badly cracked facade of openmindedness you attempt to dupe others into believing you possess.
On to your abortion stupidity again. Whether or not the Catholic Church disapproves of in vitro is irrelevant. After all, it wasn’t Ms. Reimer who was carrying the baby; it was her partner. And again, LFA had no problem with this situation: THEY CONSENTED TO THE REQUEST FOR LEAVE. If they had a problem with it, they would have dealt with it at the time. Instead, they waited until the day Ms. Reimer was due to return from her leave to confront her and bar her from campus. If you want to talk about the importance of leaving drama out of things, perhaps you should be taking this side of the argument, considering that all of the drama here has come from LFA administration. So when you say that LFA got non-disclosure, conflict with doctrine, and a sideline issue, your point is not relevant, because LFA considered all three of those, approved the leave request, and in doing so gave their implicit approval of all three. Case closed.
Yet again, you continue to distort to no end. “In Vitro Fertilization 101″ is ridiculous. There is, to date, no credible evidence that has been produced that suggests Ms. Reimer EVER brought the issue into the classroom. Again, it was LFA’s administrators, who agreed to the leave, and then promptly threw Ms. Reimer under the bus when she returned, as per the agreement reached with that administration, who brought the issue into the classroom.
If LFA wants carte blanche to enforce their own misguided, un-Christian morality in their nominally Christian school, then they are free to do so, so long as they stop accepting millions of dollars in public funding each year. Numerous federal court rulings over the past decade have established that all schools receiving public funding are prohibited from engaging in proscribed forms of discrimination, including the basis of sexual orientation. Again, LFA is perfectly free to fire lesbians, so long as they stop accepting public money.
So, here it is: Saints teachers and staff do not sign morality clauses. I’ve checked. LFA gave its consent to all three activities when it approved the leave in question. Ms. Reimer never brought the issue into the classroom, nor did she try to use her teaching position as a soapbox. Stop lying, stop misleading, and stop wasting bandwidth with your mindless claims that the four Georgians and current faculty member at this table find utterly laughable.
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Sam, you can add me to the Old Boys and faculty having a good old laugh at “Gordon”
Thx for stopping by. A real pleasure.
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Seriously how demented are you and when will you lose the baby bottle sucking to your old high school ? I read your runoff /ramble and will simply refer you to Geoffrey Howard’s op-ed column in the Vancouver Sun entitled There’s more at issue here than sexual orientation dated May 12th. His sentiments echo mine, he is a practicing labour lawyer and knows his stuff.
I will also say that you have a strong anti Catholic beat to your tirade, this is clear. The school has the option to maintain religious values and teaching and vitro fertilization is not one of them ( Charter protects freedom of religion ), nor is abortion. The church views marriage between heterosexual couples and a child birth between them as the norm, not petrie dish fertilization. I did not make the rules here they did.
In terms of contractual relations, at time of signing said Catholic clause Ms Reimer knew she was having a baby outside of Catholic practice thus violating the implicit terms of the contract, that being the Catholic clause. As I practice law this would be a clear notice of intent of non disclosure as would say later aborting the baby ( which is a big no no in the Catholic faith). The fact she is a lesbian is neither here nor there and yes students became aware of the birthing situation and method used, thus bringing the situation to the school and contradicting church views and the contract she signed.
In terms of morality clauses at STG, yes certain individuals have signed them and some have been fired, single female for example. Also the school receives government funding to the best of my knowledge. As per molestation and Jeff, that would be one former partner at a large Vancouver law firm who was molested at knife point on his way home from STG back in the 70′s.
PS) I hope you wear your old boys tie with honor being the anti Catholic that you are, I am sure John Cruickshank and Henry Man will be glad to chat with you.
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“As I practice law…”
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Who are you trying to fool? I’ll tell you: only yourself. You have manufactured a character because you are too much of a coward to tell us who you are.
“Yes, certain individuals have signed them (morality clauses)…” No they haven’t, you’re a liar. Conduct clauses are standard, but not ones on morality. What a fool! Besides, I thought you told us with certainty that this was true. LOL!
And Sam was hardly anti-Catholic. He was just pointing out some very good facts, which you have conveniently missed (or disregarded).
Oh, BTW, I don’t know who ‘John’ Cruickshank is, but I do know a Rob, who currently sits as Chair of the Board. and Henry I consider a friend. But you know everything, yup, you’re just brilliant. Besides, do you mean to tell us that even if Sam was anti-Catholic, that this somehow is deserving of rebuke by any member of the school’s board?
You really are a complete nut.
The only person confused on this issue is you, I’m afraid.
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King Alex,
What is farcical about your ” blog ” is that you reply for others and limit input to similar opinions. As commented by others here I have hardly been anti gay yet you stomp on them for suggesting that you are heavy handed. I have read other pieces of yours on other subjects and you appear to be to the right of George Bush, even David Frum whom you would love to trade places with.
In terms of Obama who you ridiculed, I would love to see you debate the guy, for sure he caused the financial crisis etc.
What I suggest is that you get a job with Coast Mountain Transit driving the bus past LFA and YHS and maybe you can re-educate the former, maybe have an announcement speaker on board ( if you have been up on your transit news ). Of course that bus would have VC students on board so do not wear the STG uniform
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No doubt you will not post this as you are a total control freak of others opinions ! Yours trumps all regardless of how little sense it makes at times.
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‘Gordon’ (still too much of a coward to put your real name to this, right?), you need to have your head examined by an entire team of trained professionals.
I do not control anyone’s opinions. I moderate them for legal reasons most of the time. And in your case I moderated and even deleted two of your posts for reasons of taste and in another case bigotry. You are a bigot. It’s as simple as that.
You want to see me debate Obama? Are you delusional? What kind of statement is that? I’d debate him, with great pleasure, and prove him out to be the fraud he is. As for your contentions that I’d like to “trade” with David Frum…again, delusional ramblings from a bigot. I admire David, very much, but have no idea why I would want to “trade” places with anyone on anything. I’m quite comfortable with who I am and where I am in life.
I published this comment only to further illustrate just how much of a fool you are. IF you had made bigoted statements as you did in the past, I’d have deleted it–period.
Now, pls go away. We’ve all had quite enough entertainment for the day.
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Alex,
Fair criticism and balanced opinion ( like the Geoffrey Howard Vancouver Sun piece ) seems to annoy you, let alone the Charter and full disclosure in contracts.
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Actually, Gordon, fair comment and balanced opinion doesn’t bother me at all. In fact, it’s what I’m all about here…
That you manipulated the Howard piece and misread the general theme is almost laughable, if it wasn’t so disturbing that, while a lawyer, you cannot read what was essentially an expanded upon brief and not be able to make heads or tails of it.
Ms. Reimer’s issue was a Charter issue in the margins. The key was that she was discriminated against.
Your confusion is breathtaking.
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As someone who has willingly (and perhaps willfully) avoided avoided associations with doctrinaire christian churches, I would say it does not matter at all, with whom someone decides to live their life. I disagree with the Catholic church on virtually every point, but still, I would find it difficult to try and impose my version of morality on the church. The greatest way to ultimately undermine the power and influence the church has, is to allow it to continue it’s anachronistic ways. WIth the scandals erupting anew, and with more and more evidence of the churches’ intolerance towards lesbians and gays, it may only be a matter of time before it collpses.
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I’d agree with you on everything until the last line. The Catholic Church, for all its failings and there are a few larger ones, is the first in line to defend Christianity. It would be a huge loss. But do they need to reform some of their ways? Brother do they ever. Is still think you have the single greatest pseudonym on the internet! Cheers!
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PS) One thinks you take yourself a little too seriously. Lose the wannabee Wasp !
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If you stopped your statement at “one thinks”, it’d be a lie.
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Fyi, I had Floyd too great guy. You miss the point entirely. First off I am hardly homophobic, talk to Jeff about that. It is great you have associated with so many gays, you are the urban man. Who cares I treat everyone the same, my point being here is that she was there to teach choir not intro 101 into vitro fertilization. She was on an 8 month contract they wanted a choir teacher not a reality TV drama teacher ! Also private one sex schools are very careful who gets hired, single teachers of the opposite sex get seriously vetted and in some cases they don’t get hired. As for her relationship, it is obvious that the school was cool with it until some right wing parents complained, this would go on at Crofton etc and Saints especially in the junior school if became common knowledge with kids. I mean get real, all the schools have had little scandals that have been cleaned up, YHS to STG. In these days of litigation and liability they acted, there is more to this story on both sides. If I go teach at a Torah school I am not going to bring ham sandwiches to school. She openly conflicted with the school and pegged it up. LFA should have let her finish her contract but i think there is more to the story.
As for your overly delusional popularity and blog whatever. I am sure you were the most popular at Saints too and the best rugby player
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The only person suffering from deep delusion is you. I will not approve anymore of your confused ramblings unless you identify yourself. You’re opinions are a complete joke. Jeff? Jeff who?
You treat everyone the same? No, apparently not if one is gay.
You are a coward. If you were worthy of the navy tie with the gold dragons, you would just come out and identify yourself. Why are you hiding if you’re such a champion of morality and virtue? Because you’re not.
As for my accomplishments or failures while a student at Saints’ it’s easy to make believe from behind the warm blanket of a pseudonym, but to come right out and be a man about your convictions..nope not you. So no more offensive drivel, unless you want to stand behind it.
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What weird name though for a school. Little Flower followed by… Academy!? Academy is an institution of higher learning, research, or honorary membership. These guys are hypocrites starting with the name of their own institution. Unfortunately in our days we have Academies for everything: Tennis, Cooking, Massage, Hair Styling…If only those Academies would put a little bit more of creativity when naming themselves like say, Hollyhock School for Environmental Leadership!
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LFA are a very good school but they are obviously not particularly enlightened about the world we live in, or, more specifically, that the sexuality of a teacher has nothing to do with her classroom performance. If she made it one, then that’s different. But she didn’t.
Your Hollyhock reference, although unrelated to LFA, was VERY funny!
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Alex, you are pretty quick to dismiss Gordon’s very reasonable opinions, I think, though I know little about St. George’s etc., but J’s bullsh*t goes without hardly a tsk! The Church, no church I know of says that people born gay are condemned to hell. That would be predestination, which I as a Catholic do not believe in, nor do I honestly think, do many of the mainline Protestant Churches. I hate to darken the Chancellor’s outlook any further but the Church, the Roman Church is not going anywhere it is merely pruning for even greater growth. Have the best life you can without a hope in tomorrow or the belief in the goodness of mankind, and you’re concept of life as being without a right or a wrong.
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Larry I’m not going to try to get you to come around to the 21 century, but it is a rank embarrassment for me to have to point out to one of my favorite commenters that Gordon’s statements here are bloody ridiculous and offensive. That you find them “reasonable” is deeply troubling to me and should be to you. Parse the issue: the woman made no representations in class. She simply had a child come into her life. There were ways that LFA could have dealt with this that would have made the whole thing seamless instead of unseemly.
All this other Catholic doctrine up and down, predestination, (alleged) gay or union agenda horse shit is exactly that–stick to the issue please boys. I find it utterly infuriating that people refuse to understand the issue: A number of strongly socially conservative parents, who clearly live in a moral vacuum, went to LFA and complained about this teacher being a “bad example” to their daughters because she is a lesbian and is having a baby. Do you not understand that? Are you incapable of setting aside all this other claptrap? She was discriminated against–pure and simple and that is unacceptable. If God’s love is all encompassing and omnipresent, then surely, as one whom was created by that same God, she must have the right to live her life as she was born to do. She’s not an axe-murderer, her position(s) do not conflict with the ways of the world, she is not advocating for Satan, she wasn’t pontificating from the front of the class, or even the back.
So I ask again…who is a worse example for young women, Britney Spears and Pamela Anderson, or a woman who goes off to live her life as a result of being born a certain way and wanting a child (two separate issues) with a member of the same sex? I think the distinction is crystal clear. There are good and bad people in this world, regardless of their sexuality, and this particular teach in question is not one of the bad ones. I made abundantly clear in my post above, that she must have know better than to have applied to such a devout environment (although I don;t remember it being that way too much in the past) and that her being accompanied by this moron from the elementary teachers association was mindless. But for her to be treated as she was to satisfy Neanderthal parents living in the darkest days of the Amish is beyond comprehension.
If the comments on this issue continue to be about anything other than the central issue, I will close them off. I don;t care what the Catholic church teaches or preaches, or if she had an issue in New Orleans (because if she did and it was serious enough they should have fired her immediately). But for anyone to come on this blog, and not put forward their name and cast all these ridiculous aspersions is beyond the pale and patently unfair.
So is encouraging such cowardly behavior.
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Actually I think St Georges is a very gay friendly school, it is the most gay of the male schools in town in my opinion. I think they even play field hockey there if I recollect. I had several gay friends go there.
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I’m not sure about “friendly” being the right word. It’s not a bloody nightclub. But the school is certainly accepting (as it should be) of students or faculty whom are gay or lesbian. Schools are not about showcasing your sexuality. They are about learning. At Saints’, the reason the formula works is because we employ the best teachers we can find and that attracts good students. Beyond that, the culture of excellence is extremely strong.
As for your contention that we “even play field hockey” as somehow being relevant to the fact that Saints’ is accepting of gays and lesbians, I think you might not want to repeat that again. Sports of all kinds are played brilliantly by all sorts of people who are both gay and straight.
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St. George’s School should be proud to have you as one of their old boys. You are so right on here I am surprised there is anyone foolish enough to argue against you. I also graduated from the school but many years before you. When I was there it was not too accepting of my homosexuality although the world was not accepting of gay men in general. For you to be showing such sizable compassion and respect for gay men and lesbian women warms my heart more than I can tell you.
‘Gordon’ one the other hand hides as you say and shows a total lack of maturity of mind when discussing the suffering we endure on an everyday basis all because we are made differently. He is obviously a bigot and does not know how to communicate.
I’m also Catholic and have a very tough time with their position on homosexuality as it is contradictory to the doctrine of Christ’s love. If we are truly all his children then let us act this way.
Thank you Alex for being such an honorable man. I have been reading your blog for some time and while I am more liberal than you, you always have a very straight forward and honest opinion. I am proud to be your fellow alum and think what you did as Georgians president will never be repeated. I can say because I was here for the conversations, even your critics were complimentary.
Salutations from New York City. Please keep up the great work.
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You’re most welcome. And greetings right back at you. I lived in New York for a brief period in the 90s and LOVED it. NYC and London are my two favorite cities in the world. Followed by Quebec City (most beautiful in Canada), Vancouver and Palm Springs.
I’m glad you are enjoying your life and I wish you well. Email me privately if you’d like, we should get you out to a few school events when you’re back in town.
Do you come to town often?
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It is called Little Flower in memory of St. Theresa, who was called the Little Flower of Jesus, but I guess I wouldn’t expect someone who knows nothing about Roman Catholicism to know that, but who thinks he must criticize it for its name.
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The other school is VC which is a bit rough, I can see why Saints is more gay friendly, especially for coming out.
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Fair enough. But I have many friends and relatives that attended Vancouver College and I’m not sure how “rough” they are or aren’t. Good people, by and large. I don’t think you can label places this way but understand what you’re trying to say here.
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Actually I think they used to beat up the Saints guys ! Maybe they are more tame now.
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To allow some idiot who knows nothing about Christianity to come on board and accuse me and my fellow Christians of believing that anyone who isn’t heterosexual must go to Hell, is beyond unfair Alex, it’s preposterous. No more discussions of predestination, causation, determinism, antinomianism etc., just follow the money Alex. The folks at the Human Rights Commission are just champing at the bit. Will that be simple enough? I don’t want to confuse things any further.
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More than enough. As I stated earlier, no sidebars make this any clearer. She was discriminated against–pure and simple; it was handled very poorly. Very poorly.
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Hey Alex,
I’ve spent the last 3.5 hours reading your blog. I like the way you think (of course I like it because I have similar views..).
First off let me say that I’ve entered in with an anonymous name and quite frankly although you are very used to being in the public eye and taking hits for what you write, not everyone has developed that muscle. Don’t think its not a muscle – it takes a while for a person to write things that will likely offend lots of people and yet be okay with putting their name to it. Maybe its not your problem (which is good), but I don’t like not being liked by people (I consider that a weakness btw which I’m working on).
Secondly, I have some principal arguments to through at your regarding the LFA. I don’t have any history with that school, I don’t even know anybody who has kids that go there. I don’t know anyone that works there either.
Enough pre-amble…
Why is it that you don’t care if someone signs “some kind of Catholic Contract”? Please answer this question in “principal” – the topic/issue is NOT relevant if we don’t agree on the principles behind. Is it not important that if someone agrees to something that they have to then continue to agree to it or leave? (btw I don’t know what is in a Catholic Code/Contract – but it doesn’t matter what is in it because of the way you used it in your post – implying that something in the contract was used to deal with this person)
Please do not bring up any gay/christian/catholic/love/hate/bigot/biased factors to try to make an argument – just think through the question. I’ve read a fair bit of your writing and I see a logic flow in your thinking that cuts through the bullshit of various issues….but it seems that in this case because its got something to do with religion/gay issues that you are inconsistant in applying your usual logic.
If the teacher signed a contract that said she had to be an assasin and kill 3 people per year, and then later decided she was not willing to perform her duties (it doesn’t even matter if the duties were illegal for the purpose of this principal), then is there not a case to terminate her contract. If you don’t agree with whatever it is you are being asked to agree to – DONT DO IT, situational necessity while it may be a factor to you is NOT an acceptable defense. If you agree to something you must execute it or suffer the consequences. If you agree to something and as a result totally compromise on your beliefs too bad for YOU.
Is it reasonable that someone can agree to something and get a job (while actually not agreeing) and then when the agreement is applied complain? Please DO NOT answer this while specifically thinking about LFA because it will cloud the principal which I know you agree with given you would call bullshit in any other environment other than this type of issue.
I’m obviously making an extreme example to further illustrate the principal and NOT the specifics.
In the end of your post you ask the parents to choose who they would rather see as a mother, Britney Spears…..etc. Weak straw man BS. Sorry try again, you are better than that. They don’t have to choose between the choices you gave them, so you can finish a post off with a strawman polish.
You can’t (you can but its weak) use examples of Catholics, Christians or any religion and claim the religion is bad because the people practicing it are doing bad things in its name. ie. All Politicians aren’t assholes because one is or for that matter because 35,000 are. That style of argument against people particularly in the realm of religion is really tiring and quite frankly is only effective at the lowest common denominator of intellect.
In terms of the Catholic faith (I’m not a Catholic) – do they not have a right to believe whatever it is that they believe? Is it not essential in order to be a person of integrity that your beliefs mirror your actions? I don’t think you can intellectually argue against this – except that you might say this:
Yes they can believe whatever they want to believe AND act on that belief – unless of course their beliefs break laws…..that is the only angle I can give you.
I assume you will post this – I hope you do as I don’t think I’ve been unfair in my reply – however if you choose to reply can you do your best to stay in principal rather than in specifics or the result is that we will have a conversation about religion and gay issues, and I’m not interested in discussing religion/gay issues – which unless you invoke “law” have NOTHING to do with the principals behind the thinking of the issues.
You have to separate you personal feelings about the issue to actually get into the meat of the issue. AFTER THAT you can put your “religion/gay/issue” hat back on and slam LFA
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Hi Jason:
I appreciate your careful comments. Your anonimity or that of anyone else is never a concern for me as I respect that choice. In fact, for reasons that are yours and none of my business (although it’s kind of you to share them here) I embrace them. But in Gordon case, he has come on her and cast aspersions about the LFA teacher in question which are not appropriate or true. In fact, after having a very long conversation with someone quite close to the matter, Gordon is obviously some shill for people who don’t like lesbians unless they define their lives as they are told. This to me is anathema to living free-all of us, without almost totalitarian restrictions on our fundamental freedoms.
As for your lengthy note, I have but a simple answer: While I understand your position, I think I’ve been clear from that beginning that mistakes were made on both sides, but LFA mishandled this very badly and should have been the party in this matter to lead the way. If it was a Catholic school or not, should not be relevant.
And with respect to my comparison, which you don’t like, I have two daughters (as well as one son). Many people have daughters and it seems to me that young women are exposed to the worst possible examples in life. Spears and Anderson are whores. What kind of mothering will these women provide, any differently form what they have already poorly demonstrated? It won’t get any better for those kids. Michael Douglas’ son, Cameron is off to do five years for being a drug dealer. Douglas, to his GREAT credit admitted that he was an absentee father for most of the that boys life, worried more about career than Cameron. A huge admission; an honourable one. So, I ask for the umpteenth time: who would you rather have as a “roll model” since the offended LFA parents were concerned about precisely that, the flipping garbage our daughters are exposed to on the TV, radio, movies, etc, or….a young, albeit lesbian, teacher who might of had an untimely arrival, yes, but was dignified and did not preach or offend anyone??? A woman who is likely not to offend anyone or insult anyone. So she screwed up in the manner she handled her employment-maybe…that hardly gives LFA the right to have discriminated against her.
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Hey Alex,
I agree after thinking about it some more that the school (while sticking to what they believed in) should have lead the way in finding a solution. That is a good thought line you present. They should have been the “bigger” party here even though they may have had all the “right” to do whatever they wanted to based of whatever contract she/they signed.
(at the risk of beating the point to death…:-)
. You are implying that offended LFA parents are concerned about role models – lets assume they are (I certainly was and am as my boys grow/grew up. I agree with you, but and its a big but…..they (LFA parents) think that the teachers lifestyle/nature (whichever way you roll on it) is a bad role model for their kids based on their freely held (even if you think they are wrong) beliefs. So for them (even if it might not be for 87.5% of the world) they are exposing their kids to a role model that is not helpful to their kids.
.
. I get it , I get it – BUT THEY DONT – because the ONLY role models that are acceptable to them are the ones that line up with their faith. and speaking principally that is a reasonable position, regardless of whether I agree with them or not.
In terms of the choice I still differ from you – (not in the choice, but in that I still believe its a straw man spin. (btw, I have four boys
I don’t think any of the parents (at least I certainly don’t and my boys went (and still go) to public schools think that Britney or Anderson are even remotely good roles models either. I actually think your description of them is closer to reality
So I’m still arguing that FOR THE OFFENDED PARENTS the comparison or choice between your two options is a bit of a straw man to make your point.
I get what you are saying and would agree more if we were talking about a secular school, but this is Catholic school with has strong and clear beliefs about issues so in this case your comparisons are not valid because they would (according to their beliefs) reject both of your examples AND not accept a lessor of two evils argument either.
I know, I know the “lessor of two evils” comment in describing the teacher is offensive…
I like to look at things (as best as I can) from each parties point of view and see if the logic flow works. From what I’m thinking the teachers logic flow doesn’t line up – LFA’s does but they should have led better – way better. I guess your title for this post is actually pretty good…”the bloom is off the rose” – good thing that the bloom is seasonal and not a permanent state:)
Btw, I always liked Michael Douglas – particularly in Wall Street which had an unhealthy influence on me. “Greed is Good”, “Lunch is for Losers”. I agree with you on his being honest and transparent – confession is good for the soul.
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Thx Jason, I certainly appreciate your pithy comments. Many thx again.
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Alex,
I agree with most of what you have to say – but the part that gives me trouble is that she took (as I understand the facts) a one year term position, and then left LFA high and dry in the middle of that term. Perhaps if she and her partner had postponed the pregnancy until the end of the school year, then this would be a non-issue? To quote your reply to Larry on MAy 3 @12:02 – it was handled poorly – by both parties.
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Yes, absolutely, but it did not give LFA the right to treat her so ridiculously. As you note, I have been more than fair in my comments. I guess I just expected better of LFA. They are a very good school whom treated two of my three sisters wonderfully. They should know better in this day and age to be playing such a foolish game.
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Lisa was hired to teach music, specifically choir. As I understand it, the Catholic contract she was made to sign said that as a non-Catholic she was not allowed to speak against the Church in class, or do anything contrary to the Church in class. There has been no evidence given that she broke these rules, and consequently the issue of the contract is not a valid point. Short of doing something illegal in the classroom, the only reason for not allowing her to teach would be her ability as a teacher. She has been, and will continue to be one of the best choir teachers in Vancouver. She did not bring her “lifestyle” into the classroom, and LFA has no business in her bedroom!
Lisa knew well in advance that she would not be able to accompany the choir on the trip to New Orleans. The regular choir teacher, who will return to work in September, knew this, and had agreed to go with the choir in Lisa’s place. I hardly think this qualifies as leaving them “high and dry”. As a matter of fact, they won a gold medal while in New Orleans, which speaks to how well prepared Lisa had them.
Until someone can prove otherwise, I will continue to believe that Lisa was an effective teacher, doing all in her power to inspire these young girls to be better musicians as well as better human beings. She did not have any ulterior motives for accepting the job at LFA (one they recruited her for, not the other way around) and had no motive other than standing up for her rights when she took this story to the media.
The losers in this sad tale are the girls at LFA, as the classes Lisa was teaching have been cancelled. I would hope that some parents would be more upset about that, but I have heard no one complaining that due to LFA’s shortsighted actions the girls are not getting the education they are entitled to.
On the positive side, Lisa now has time to spend with her beautiful new son.
Bigotry and stupidity done in the name of religion, does not make it right!
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Why all of a sudden do I have the urge to sing???
Thanks you Ray…of HOPE…
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This will be my absolute last comment on this matter (applause, ovations , fireworks) unless and until Alex begins pounding on the matter again.
I recollect an aphorism by Thomas Macaulay wherein he says “We know of no spectacle more ridiculous than the British public in one of its periodic fits of morality.” Now of course this was at a time when Catholicism was out of favour in England, so we were talking about the cold puritanical Protestantism that then infected that sea-girt land. In the present case here in Vancouver, it would be applied more fittingly to the sere, orchestrated outrage of secular (im)morality, that had been pitted against that fearsome, loathsome and sinister entity that is, Little Flower Academy.
Sometime earlier, Sir Walter Scott, after Lord Byron was driven out of England by the malice of society gossip, said, “I have been too long accustomed to the site of a noble staghound set upon by village curs.” Same island, same Victorian prudence. It evokes in me, visions of Christian school girls being hounded by a pack of ravenous, screeching, feminist harpies, (and their all too morally inept supporters) Despite what Alex contends, and though I have
no evidence I suspect that this was hatched, not in some bright and breezy bookstore for “Sisters”, but rather in the dark recesses of some Faustian Cellar of the mind. Whether the procedure was accomplished by turkey baster or some other more technological method, is really immaterial, as a child is involved now. However, the very fact that it was allowed that some sick puppy should be able to suggest that the conventual sisters involved with the school, were nothing more than a nest of lesbians, is beneath Alex Tsakumis, and his claims to respect Christian virtues, seems
now, feigned at best.
I’m sorry Alex, but the teaching of sexual morality, continence and constancy within Holy Matrimony are Catholic values (not always maintained, but attempted). Oh, and by the way, you want to see the Brittany Spears, Paris Hilton wannabes, check out the public schools. Apparently you are not the great defender of women you claim to be, unless they are only seen as sexual entities, otherwise you would have rebuked our friend Henri.
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Actually, I am, I’ve written about it extensively. One of those columns, you actually wrote me about when I was still at 24hrs.
However, we will agree to disagree. Besides, I’m not the moral exemplar here. I’m simply a man, with faults and sins, and I think that those neither preclude me from my beliefs nor my position on this issue. The woman was discriminated against notwithstanding Faustian soldiers or Christian apostates.
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It seems so ironic that people are claiming that the rights of gay/lesbians are being squashed down, and they are being misunderstood; while Catholics are being slandered by people who do not fully understand their faith.
Is it not a typical stereotype for people to believe that catholics are homophobic? Labeling and making judgements towards Catholics for this one incident is totally being hypocritical; since so many gays/lesbians are known for being persecuted for their sexual orientation.
everyone assumes ms reimer left beccause she was gay. but honestly, she wasn’t a very good choir teacher. under her conduction, the LFA concert choir was unable to perform in festivals beccause she did not prepare them. many parents and students had complained about her prior to her leaving the school–not because they knew she was lesbian, but because she was a crappy teacher.
so honestly, if you’ve never met her, or been conducted under her, dont assume.
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JJ: My issue was with how LFA handled the employment issue. That they had devout Catholics complaining about her being a lesbian is now a matter of public record. I couldn’t care less about her ability to teach choir, since it wasn’t a determining factor–for if it was, why on earth would they have not just said that. To document her allegedly substandard performance would have taken nothing more than succeeding notations in a log of record. If this happened, wonderful, say so and be done with it.
As for your contentions about Catholics, I do not think you will find a non-Catholic more supportive of Catholicism than me. I am married to a woman whose faith is Roman Catholic and I encourage me children to attend her church as I encourage them to attend mine (Orthodox). I really don’t overly identify with either, but recognize the importance of both. I’m “Christian”, without a particular affectation for any denomination. I love Christ and consider Him my personal savior as much as I recognize what a screw up I am as a Christian–or perhaps what I perceive to be a good one.
The objections I have with the Catholic Church mostly stem from their evident interest in excusing sins against children that have been happening from what seems like ages. Catholics are NOT homophobic (a contrived slander which I despise) but their backyard is CERTAINLY in need of care, before going off and judging anyone else’s landscaping, if you’ll forgive the rather facile analogy.
Thx for stopping by.
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Interesting your beloved high school St Georges now has a teacher under investigation by the VPD for child pornography !
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Madam:
Why don’t you tell us what you find interesting about it?
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Having read your blog about how liberal St Georges is and that others are bigots for adhering to the view that tight employment screening is wise, look what they got ! I am not saying it was avoidable as he probably had extremely strong references and was an alum but caution is tantamount. Saints dodged a bullet on this one as he was not doing anything with the students and clearly the school dealt with it immediately and effectively.
In the case of the teacher above, my understanding is that there were issues beyond sexual orientation, that being performance on the job and reliability. It also baffles me why she would teach at two private schools that were strictly for females given she had a tenured position within the public system.
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Madam, your being baffled is hardly a surprise…
1) I never suggested StGs was a liberal school. I was simply pointing out how pleased I am that they are accepting of teachers from all stripes in life.
2) That you have even tried to equivocate the unfortunate child pornography charges against a former teacher of StGs, with the discriminatory behavior of the Catholic girls school mentioned in my post, is beyond comprehension. Notwithstanding your obvious confusion, the two issues do not even belong on the same page but I allowed your idiotic comment to go through simply because I was honestly wondering where you intended to go with this, other than to lob bomblets from the gutter.
3) In case you feel you’ve not met your bitch quotient today, let me congratulate you for exceeding it.
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Learn to spell and it is you that is an idiot for spewing nonsense and non parallel thought. It appears the Catholic school has screening and the other is open to potential abuse, especially if you were running it. If you are a graduate of StG then I am not impressed in the least, your mouth is foul and you wreak of being a snob.
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Let’s get this straight: You come here and take a shot at Saints because you’re deep in some blithe schadenfreude; mindlessly take a shot at me because I made a typo in my response to your intolerable, closeted bigotry; and then among other mindlessness comments, you tell me I’m the one with issues?
In case reading comprehension will never be your strong suit, I was defending the rights of a lesbian to be treated with the same respect as a non-lesbian, regardless of employment matters or other “issues” (which you never identified while you hide in anonymity) and this, defending a minority, makes me a snob?
Please, do us all a favor. This blog is populated by some very intelligent people. If your looking for a place to be moron, there are other blogs you can visit.
What I do feel bad about is that I seem to have insulted bitches everywhere by lowering their standards in comparing you to them. I didn’t realize that you were a significantly lesser bottom-feeder.
You come here celebrating the victimization of StGs and you expected what? A prize?
The comfort of the underside of your rock awaits. Please crawl back to it.
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” This blog is populated by some intelligent people ”, you being the exception. Frankly your delusions of grandeur and massive ego for no reason allows no other opinions that vary from yours, insight is distilled and spat back.
As for StG, it proves that schools have to be cautious as to their teachers behavior, a conduct clause is not a bad thing ! This guy was viewing child porn at home and at the school, who knows what else he was up to ! To quote above, Lisa was not bringing her home life to school, well this guy sure was ! I am sure he has visited Thailand or the like, to make matters worse he is a StG alum !
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Madam, I can only conclude that your mental state is in a complete state of dissolution.
You come here to cast innuendo about an innocent woman. Then you celebrate a young man being charges with possession of child porn–and when I hammer you (read: reveal how incredibly daft you are) you proceed to make further accusations about what I do and don’t allow on MY blog.
Not to allow any previous insanity to carry the standard for your insane commentary, now, you proceed to suggest that the accused visited Thailand, without knowing what he did there even if he went. You also assume that there was something missing in his contract as if that would have made a difference.
Look, you’ve had your fifteen minutes of fame. Now, after you’ve taken your meds, pls go somewhere else to infest…you won’t be approved here again. Ta-ta.
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