UPDATE: Only In Canada–the Refugee Out-Collects the Pensioner
So, contrary to popular lore, the post further down was not furnished to me by some net goblin. Instead, it came from a provincial govt worker who was appalled at the disparity. After I looked into it, of course, I was too.
I’ll provide you now with what I’ve learned, and then some final comments on this. I think we’ve dissected this to death, besides, I have some other items you will find quite intriguing. Thanks for your patience.
My Summary:
CRA (Canada Revenue Agency) – Service Canada website modified 14Dec09. Stats for July 2009
Retired pension maximum is $934.17 per month – $11,210 per year, but Canada average is $472.36 per month – $5,668.32 per year
If a pensioner earns less than 15,672, they MAY be eligible for Old Age Security which averages $464.64 per month.
But as an interesting footnote to the original story, BC statistics for RAP (Refugee Assistance Plan), which was a comparison of RAP to Social Assistance on a monthly basis, latest stats at 2007.
“Taking Vancouver as an example, the monthly RAP and SA payments are on par at $991 per month. Once all supplements and government benefits are accounted for, however, the total income for the RAP reference family is 16% higher that the total income of the SA reference family.”
Total SA reference family per month is $1,692. – $20,304. per year
Total RAP reference family per month $2,025. – $24,300 per year.
The referred to supplements entail Housing, transportation, children under 6 yrs, school supplies, Christmas supplement to name a few.
They also can receive a stipend of $59. per month from GST.
Another disparity I found is that the Refugee Assistance plan allows the refugee to earn additional income up to 50% of their benefits without reducing their benefits. Compared to EI recipient who can only earn 25% above their benefit before it reduces their benefits. This is astounding.
That is a maximum potential addition earning of $12,150 for the refugee. Therefore, the annual maximum earning potential of $36,450 for the refugee!!!
Not bad for doing nothing. No??
Conclusions:
1) We should be ashamed that we offer a pittance to the elderly and veterans in comparison with immigrant assistance and particularly refugee grants. The “system” is a contemptible joke that has been ratcheted up with pure pandering by both Tories and Liberals. If the Tories are prepared to change this, marvelous–I welcome this. Don’t look for the Grits to do it, as they would lose entire riding associations in Surrey. The giant sucking sound you’re hearing comes from the Liberal bailiwick. Diesel fumes, too…
2) When the hell did we give away the country to refugees? I don’t care if the discovered information was a one-shot deal (it’s not, it’s actually a monthly raping of your pocket)…it’s bloody exorbitant.
3) Along the way I discovered other offences…immigrants who have left for “home” and either maintain their MSP or COME BACK AND COLLECT THEIR PENSIONS!!! I will blog about this perhaps soon after I’ve read all the literature, but the amount of money that leaves us in this way is ASTOUNDING.
My paternal great-grandfather came to this land in 1868. His son, my grandfather, sailed across the Atlantic and landed at Ellis Island, New York City, in 1899. My father, landed in Montreal and took the train to Vancouver, arriving in 1957 (FIFTY dollars in debt and picking at a loaf of stale bread for the first three days). Not one of them did anything except abide by the laws, immerse themselves in being good Canadians and loving the people and the traditions of the land they all called HOME. Canada to them wasn’t just an opportunity to live better. It was a place to build, a place to cherish, a place to plant roots for generations.
Slowly, from those days, we have allowed our Canadian traditions to erode, in favor of something extremely damaging called “Multiculturalism’; that has done nothing except foster contempt and provide excuses for those unwilling to assimilate. Celebrating one’s culture is part of Canadian tradition, granted, but trumping that by demanding SUPERIOR rights and privileges exceeding those afforded to Canadian citizens is a bloody disgrace.
If your head-dress covers your identity and this is what you call religious freedom, please leave. If you have a “ceremonial” dagger which you demand to wear, then as a long-time pistol shooter, I demand that it’s part of my Canadian identity to holster under my arm, my .357. Do you feel better now? Are we safer?
There is a book in all of this somewhere, but I’m finishing my first one, totally unrelated to politics (due out in October 2010), but it’s VERY worth noting that thanks to successive governments pandering to the easy vote, we have tragically diluted the value of being Canadian, for some hybrid citizen, that doesn’t make us better, but weakens us so terribly.
We spent (and spend) billions protecting Quebecs culture. All this while Quebec politicians went about destroying what little we had. All under the guise of multiculturalism.
The sad part is we sat there and let it happen while our pundits cheered this aberration.
Thanks PET!
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Truly, Pierre Elliot Trudeau did so much incredible damage to this country, I’m at a loss as to how anyone could see it otherwise. He was our worst modern day PM. Kim Campbell notwithstanding…
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I agree. Pierre Trudeau, at least in modern times, was the worst prime minister we ever head. He was a smart-aleck and created discord and dissension. The press fawned over him like an idiotic love-machine. The spectacle (walking up Bay Street in Toronto) of Trudeau himself flanked by a junta of gawking toadies was sickening. Just to hear his name raises my blood pressure. It is difficult to tolerate his son because of Pierre Elliot Trudeau. Don’t forget the Elliot.
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How could anyone forget? Trudeau almost destroyed this country. There are people in Alberta who STILL haven’t recovered from his insanity over NEP, etc.
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With my apologies to Alex and others, which may already have read the following posted by mistake elsewhere, this his how immigration in Canada used to be in Canada in the middle 70′s.
As an immigrant who 35 yrs ago didn’t cost a cent to Canada, arriving as a visitor, getting a 6 month work permit, renewed for another 6 months, fully employed and with a letter from my employer guarantying my future employment for a minimum of a year, I was denied Landed Status and had to go back to South Africa applying from there, being told I would be granted it for sure, considering my employer’s letter and fluency in English. Landed Status was quickly granted after 3 months, however, considering the considerable travelling expenses, 3 trips at over $1000 ea. (All paid by me) I delayed the the return trip for a year, applying for an extension of the permit.
The “Refugee” scam is being promoted by the people that under the guise of helping those in need, make a living exploiting these issues, some are called “Lobbyists” a vast field indeed. Why the Government did relax the refugee/immigration laws and fudges on many others, it is mainly due to their “input”. The same applies to the recognition of their professional qualifications. I was a Job Captain (architectural drafting) in South Africa and had to downgrade to Intermediate in Canada, getting back to Job Captain after a few years of adaptation, I don’t forget an Iranian Lawyer, complaining (in broken English) that they were ignoring his degree. Although I am ignorant of Iranian Law (fortunately) I think it is “slightly” different from Canadian law.
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No apologies necessary. Pleased to print it again.
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Alex, I think you should write the book on immigration. It would be a best seller. I couldn’t agree more with your conclusions. We have forgotten what made this country great. Instead we allow all kinds of ridiculous changes to the way we live to accommodate people that want the benefits of being Canadian while living in their past. Thank you for having the courage to say what a majority of Canadians are feeling.
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You’re most welcome.
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What a super post Alex! You wrote what so many of us want to say. You will be attacked as being a racist instead of being honored for being such a great Canadian.
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I am unafraid of the naysayers. They’re welcome to express themselves as they see fit. I know I am objectively correct because my opinion on this matter is cross-referenced by my personal experience as an immigrant’s son and as a proud Canadian, who understands the greatness this country possesses. IF we start to dilute that an further, we might as well forget ‘Canada’ and call ourselves something else. Frightening.
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I couldn’t have said it better myself. Nice to read some common sense.
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Glad to hear you enjoyed it. I’m some what bracing myself for the onslaught of bleeding hearts.
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Alex,
First off, its a pleasure to be part of your online community. I enjoy your daily insightful commentary, and quite looked forward to this post.
Second, I do not dispute your underlying thesis that Canada is far too naive, and open and generous when it comes to refugees. Many policies encourage a sense of entitlement which is not good for anyone. The way our refugee determination system is structured also welcomes abuse.
But now I must quibble again with your comparison and facts.
-Old Age Security does not kick in only under $15,637. You’re thinking of GIS (guaranteed income supplement). Old Age Security is an entitlement for any Canadian senior who has lived here for 10 years. To receive the full benefit of $515, a senior needs to be in Canada for 40 years – the amount is proportionately reduced for years in Canada between 10 and 40. This system is structured in a way to ensure that contributors that a substantial contribution to Canadian society before issuing benefits. I note that Liberal MP Ruby Dhalla proposed reducing 10 years to 3 years – now thats what I call pandering to your base. Claback only begins at $64,000 in income, and the OAS is completely eliminated only at $115,000 in income. You have to include OAS in any reasonable calculation of pension benefits for Canadian seniors ($515/month).
-A senior earning the maximum CPP benefit and nothing else will also receive $186/mo in GIS. You may say “only MAY be eligible”, but the eligibility criterion is being a Canadian citizen and having lived in Canada for 10 years. As we’re comparing lifelong Canadians with refugees, I think thats a fair assumption for our comparison. So CPP/OAS/GIS annual payment for a single Canadian senior who maxes out on CPP is $19,632.
-Let’s say this is an average CPP senior, not a maximum CPP earning senior. (The average is actually lowered by CPP recipients who are not lifelong Canadians. If you’ve worked 40 years, you’re probably receiving the maximum CPP if you earned more than $44,000 in today’s dollars in most earning years). A senior getting the average CPP (5668/yr) gets GIS of $415/mo, for a total annual government CPP/OAS/GIS pension of $16,582. (5668 + 515×12 + 415×12)
Now for the refugees. You cite RAP numbers. The first problem right away is that RAP is for 1 year, possibly renewable for a second year. Its not a lifetime payment like a pension. RAP also only applies to government sponsored refugees, which is a tiny proportion of all refugees. But we shall continue.
For everyone’s information, to follow along, Alex’s numbers come from: http://www.sparc.bc.ca/index.php?option=com_rubberdoc&view=doc&id=114:sparc-bc-final-rap-report&format=raw&type=pdf
-Your “reference family” earning $24,300 per year is a family of two adults and two children. Alex, you’re comparing one pensioner to a refugee family of four!! Your number also includes things like the child tax credit and universal child care benefits, things your senior would be entitled to if he/she happened to care for young children.
-A single refugee, according to the numbers in the report Appendix, gets $8,404 / year. (http://www.sparc.bc.ca/resources-and-publications/doc/115-report-appendices-sparc-bc-rap-report.pdf). This is the number to use for a fair comparison. And there is NO lifelong Canadian senior who receives that low a pension.
-Our pensioner is also entitled to the GST credit. The $59 figure you use is again for a couple with two children, not for a single refugee. A single pensioner and a single refugee both get $20/month
-You correctly show that refugees receive more than recipients of social assistance (welfare). I think you’re trying to move the goalposts by bringing social assistance recipients into the comparison (we were talking pensioners). I just have a hard time being concerned about the idea of BC social assistance recipients being underpaid.
So in conclusion, I thank you for educating me to the fact that a government assisted refugee receives more than base provincial social assistance, however, I remain unconvinced that you have made a case that “the refugee outcollects the long suffering (Canadian) pensioner.”
Also, a RAP recipient is a refugee sponsored and settled by the government. This is someone literally pulled out of a refugee camp with the clothes on their back. We are not talking about the thousands of middle class bogus claimants who arrive at YVR every year. I can live with a year of support to a government assisted refugee, and I’m far far far from a bleeding heart. I can’t live with fraud, and I look forward to your expansion on point 3 above in your post.
Thanks again for making us all think about this,
Regards
Shaun
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Shaun:
1) I’m not talking about FULL benefit.
2) RAP is NOT “possibly renewable”. In fact, even if we even took those two years my comparison is MOST fair, since I think that amount of money is OUTRAGEOUS, and should not be doled out like that when we’re paying seniors, veterans etc, a PITTANCE.
3) No, I’m not comparing a family and a pensioner. This is most deceiving. The money is, again, doled out based on a criteria that does not necessarily include kidlets, etc. My outrage is based, largely, on the garrulous amount an unproven “Canadian” is receiving, at a time when we are paying pensioners next to nothing. Frankly, if you’d like me to take it a step further, I don’t think people like my parents should be getting pensions. It’s absurd to be paying those in the lap of luxury any kind of assistance. You’re claiming that you get me, but I fear you’re missing my point.
Frankly, I don’t think I could ever convince you that the pensioner is getting stiffed while were paying way too much for a refugee, as I found this….
http://www.unac.org/yfar/national_e.htm
I promise I will not ask you to explain managing the Ryan Warawa campaign as I have too much respect for you that to do that…
I appreciate your perspectives, and respect them, but I fear you are reforming my statements and taking minimum bar figures to suit your argument because you are coming from a particular bias.
With respect, the pensioner is getting screwed while the refugee gets way too much. That’s the point here. The other points I included as reference, and not to “move the goalposts–I have much more respect for my readers than that.
I wish you well.
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I found it difficult to find the corresponding legislation to the RAP (resettlement assistance program) which would explain the program in detail without having to guess what the entitlements are.
One point in Sean’s otherwise well-researched comment which is inaccurate is that you don’t have to be a Canadian citizen to qualify for OAS/GIS. Residency is sufficient. I know Alex would love to comment to that, but I personally think citizenship should be a necessary condition to be able to collect OAS/GIS.
Low-income seniors also get ripped off on the clawback – that is the real travesty of the retirement system, but I doubt the government could afford the OAS/GIS rates if the clawback was not present.
Still, it is pretty clear that for the first couple years that refugee families will be getting an income stream likely above somebody on basic OAS/GIS/CPP and I think that is the point Alex is making (i.e. the people having lived/worked in this country for decades should be receiving more in taxpayer’s money than refugees).
In terms of “what to do about it”, I don’t think Alex’s conclusions in this post discuss anything to address the issue. It’s pretty clear that the standards for refugee admission need to be tightened up – in 2008, there were 36,851 claims which is mind-bogglingly high. (source: http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/statistics/facts2008/temporary/23.asp)
Also Alex’s conclusion #3 is mainly an immigration issue, not exclusive with refugees, which I’m sure we’ll be seeing a post about.
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Exactly right. And I will blog about it soon, don’t you worry.
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On November 1, 2001, the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, 2001, replaced the Immigration Act, 1976. Why bother? It didn’t succeed in attracting more highly skilled and adaptable independant immigrants as it had hoped to (with or without the point system)– “Inadmissible persons… persons who lack the funds to support themselves;…”
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Right, the Liberals created a whole list of future voters from Asia, with bank accts bursting at the seams; ready, willing and able to put up any amt for immigration holds etc. Pathetic. People are buying their way into Canada. They should be EARNING it in spades, like so many European immigrants from decades past.
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A few comments.
The Chinese immigration scam 1950/60s. New Westminster. Ship docks, half ‘crew’ jumps ship. Phony documentation produced by bank accounts and lots of folks involved. Government gives amnesty to shut scandal down.
Greek scam in East. Set up phony records to show you were in WWII Greek underground and you get a Canadian pension. Heck there were family members that collected that weren’t even old enough in WWII. Government covers as they don’t want to lose critical Ontario ridings.
South Indian scam. Arrive in Canada sponsored and guaranteed no burden to taxpayer. Immediate claim for welfare. Cheques cashed in INDIA with Indian bank stamps. Government stops returning paid cheques to local offices. Same with the then UIcheques. ( It hits the fan when a Senator’s daughter lives in Mexico and receives her poggy.)
There are dozens of taxpayer rip off if one cares to do the research.
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Absolutely correct.
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Dear Alex,
I comment just to let it be known and renown that I, never, for even a minute doubted you on this matter. There are many more than we’ll ever know, ripping this country off for everything it’s worth, and they come in all sizes, shapes, colours and sexes, and sadly, too many of them are born and bred here, as were their families before them. “The unexamined life”, said Socrates “is not worth living”; and having turned our backs on those old values, I have little hope of a moral turnaround, anytime soon.
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You said it brother…
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“ I have little hope of a moral turnaround, anytime soon.”
Well, we don’t have to worry about any kind of moral example to follow being provided by our leaders in Ottawa or Victoria, that’s pretty much guaranteed!
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No argument from me. The lack of leadership on so many keys issues is incredible.
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Alex,
Nice to see you back. Thanks for the research, and for saying what many of us are thinking.
What I find disturbing is that immigrants are receiving more than a Person with a Disability on assistance,or a senior citizen in their country of birth,or a war veteran, by their own government.. SHAME. We wonder why we have so many homeless Canadians.
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Thanks. That’s actually a great perspective. How many end up homeless? And from where? Uh, oh, I feel another post coming…
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good work Alex, on finding where Shaun looks to be coming from, and that’s okay too, you at least are open to all opinions but one gets the impression that Shaun trawls the internet looking for someone who might, to his mind, be a racist. Get the feeling too, that he maight be a big fan of the Canadian Human Rights Star-chambers. Good on George for, as you say, opening up new perspectives. Surely people have noticed that many, by far the most, of the homeless tend to be Canadian born, of European descent or else Aboriginals. There is a reason for that, and for the fact that so many seem not to care. To say that immigration and the growth of women in the workforce has nothing to do with it, is to be stupid or blind.
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Thx Larry. Yeah, I was a little astounded at the way Shaun was manipulating what I was getting at, and the way the data can be read. So I did a little research and discovered that he’s been brainwashed. Pity. He’s a pretty good guy.
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I think I’m closing in on them, Alex. My CPP was increased by $3.01 this month. If I put this windfall aside each month, I can save up enough money to take my wife out to a movie complete with a large coffee for each of us. Oh damn, I forgot about the HST. I guess we can always share a coffee.
I say this in jest, as I think that the best thing the feds ever did was to start the Canada Pension Plan. In my working years I managed to make enough to max out on my CPP contributions, most years with a month or so to spare. The great thing about this programme is that after the first couple of cheques, it just becomes another deduction and not really missed. The rewards sure come in handy now and should serve others well in the future.
I know that this is a little off topic, but sometimes one has to give credit where credit is due.
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Yes! We are in full agreement.
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Thanks for the good news Crankypants, I hadn’t yet realized the “Windfall?”, I suppose it is better than the decrease last year (never explained). However I agree entirely with you on the benefits of the CPP versus the contribution.
There is controversy about it, but after they “adjusted” it appears to be solvent.
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